Betreff: Re: [reality101] Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Von: "GrinNBarrett"
Datum: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:52:18 -0500

You don't understand Bush was picked and Kerry knew it.
He bowed out why?  Told to simple as that.  Vote doesnt matter.  Do you really think Bush got all those votes?
Both are Skull and Bones, I never felt Kerry had it to give.  He didn't run a  tight ship almost as if going through the motion.  He seemed like a need for one to run against more than someone who really wanted to win.  He missed on the important issues and spent more time fighting Bush instead of going for the American people and their plight.  Since most agreed that the economy was the main problem in reality then that is what he should have focused on. 
However, neither does the vote or the president have the power.  Both are there for show.  More powerful people are in charge.
----- Original Message -----
From: Virtualtruth
To: Virtualtruth ;
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: [reality101] Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!

--Please Forward--

Yes you read that right, Kerry WINS if all legal votes are counted.  Provisionals will count even though they are counted late and if the "spoiled" ballots can be won either by a Dem challenge (which they have decided against but maybe can be pressured on) or a citizen lawsuit(probably one or more people from Ohio)  to count these ballots, then Kerry can WIN, even though he conceded!

If the Republicans seemed to lose but they knew that all the legal votes were not counted you better believe that they would be screaming at the top of their lungs to have all legal votes counted.  How can we Democrats do any less--especially after 2000?  Even if Republicans would not accept a Kerry win after Kerry conceded, and with Congress in the hands of the Republican, Kerry couldn't "do" anything, at least the courts--including the Supreme Court--would be safe and we wouldn't have the irresponsible tax cuts, ruinous wars, destruction of environment, rights, social security, etc.  This is worth fighting for even if we have to endure scorn!

Evidence of fraud (some say massive) is coming in but simple "spoilage" where many legal votes were not counted because of undervotes or overvotes (many involving the famous "hanging chads") could--if counted--be added to the total Kerry will get when provisional votes are counted--and the provisional ballots will definitely be counted in a week. 

As a result Kerry could theoretically win Ohio and therefore the presidency even though he has conceded.  There are precedents for candidates winning after conceding.  Greg Palast--the investigative reporter who broke the Florida disenfranchisement scandal in 2000--has made a convincing case that counting spoiled legal ballots plus provisional legal ballots equals Kerry victory.

Can Dems change their mind about contesting the spoiled ballots and if not can anyone else sue to have these counted?

To pressure Dems to ask for recount or sue to count these votes, this is form that can be used
and these are Ohio Dem Party contacts <>; <>; <>

Does anyone else have standing to sue?  In Florida, Floridians who felt disenfranchised sued, can Ohio citizens sue on this basis?

The horrible thing is that the Republicans have convinced the American people that hand counting is suspect and that making sure votes that have been spoiled are legal votes by observing them is some sort of awful joke that must never be repeated.  This is the way disputed elections are counted all around the world--Karzai had to wait a month to be elected as president to most people's satisfaction but in the US if the winner isn't picked right away, people start screaming (especially the "winning" side and Republicans are very good at outshouting everyone else), no matter how much is in doubt or how important the results are to the nation.

There is also emerging evidence of voter fraud and disenfranchisement but I don't know if any of that can be counted to actually overturn an election--as we saw in 2000.

However, if legal votes were not counted and can still be counted someone must be able to sue to make sure this happens!  Can someone let me know if anything is being done about this?

Take care,
Cheryl Guttman

Time will tell all the Truth

Sean Lewis

Founder OpenDebateForum@groups.AOL.Com