* Hillel station-critisicm committee protocol (11/4/03)

Criticism committe of the Knesset about Porat, Zoran and Hilel station

The critisicm committee protocol has been just published, it's 24 pages,
so I bring just some interesting citations. New data - the army is
involved, too. A new cancer case in Porat since the article.


Chair Amnon Kohen: This is the forth discussion already. 3 committee
chairs handled the subject, and I am the forth. I read in one of the
protocols that the former chair committee had said that he would be the
last one to handle that.

call: He was optimistic

I also expect that it will be from my part the first and the last
meeting in the subject. It seems odd that there is a state decision from
2000 - almost 3 years have passed, and the government does not execute
it. This is a shame for the government. I understand that it can take
one month, two months, three, but above 2.5 years? And what is it about?
it is about the public health. It's about a very very hard thing from our part.

We've experienced the whole subject of the Kishon. In the beginning
nobody paid attention to the problem, and after 30 years they suddenly
found out that in the Kishon were very dangerous substances.

This subject of the antennas that produce radiation is a new subject in
the world. There are still no researchs - also in the world, also here -
which proove conlusively that there is no radiation or that there is no risk.

I am afraid to think that several years from now it will be found out
that there is a very high risk, and as a result many people got sick in
very serious diseases......

I understand that there is none who can say conclusively with
responsibility that it is not a result of the radiation. That's why we
say, that it is the implication of the radiation, and you will prove it
is not. We are responsible for the public health and for the government
decisions to be executed.......

Parliament member Ofir Pines: The government just makes fun of the Knesset.

Making fun or not, having power battles or not, as long as we don't pay
in human lives, that's ok..... I want to know not only that the site is
evacuated, but also I want to know what are the damages, how the
residents are being taken care of, who is responsible, who made the
decisions. I want to know everything. I want the public to know.
We will not plaster here things.

First of all the broadcast authority has to stop broadcasting from
there. There is alternative, there is no alternative - stop. Transmit A
net from somewhere else. Or don't transmitt A net at all. What is it all
There was the problem of Zoran. Suddenly last week we got in our face
the Porat issue. What are we, a third world country? Bussiness as usual,
everything stays the same and the discussion about yes or not finding an
alternative? Enough with this issue......

I know that Bezeq is resopnsible for the site and that it operates it
for you. I ask you [broadcast authority] to stop broadcasting. That's
all. There is a government decision. The public does not have to pay this
bureaucracy price between the government authorities. And I tell you,
everything you suggest in this issue we'll support you. Suggest a law
proposal, I will support you. An investigation committe, a sub
committee, we will support you. Everything that will make this shame to
stop. We have to use all the authorities and you have the authorities as a
committe chair.

I am just ashamed to come here for the third time to an issue that .....
I don't believe it, it's the forth time the issue is disscused. It is
just a shame, but forget the shame, maybe it costs in human lives........

Parliament member Moshe Gafni: First, this situation is untolerable.....
I can tell you that we already moved several sites like that - in Modiin
Ilit and other places, to remove it from being close to residents.
I consulted with Rabanim [heads of the religious population in Israel]
and they told me it's a real danger to human life. We can discuss
whether this real danger exists in 90% or 30% or 70%.....but...to sit
here in the Knesset and discuss about disgusting bureaucracy on the
subject of danger to the public, I think it's a shame to Israel. I don't
understand what the discussion is about. An order should be to close
this site. What are those games? Who is it being played with, with the
residents, the children, the women, the men? I think it's a shame and
disgrace. I think this discussion should not be. With all the respect,
it has just to be ordered to close this site right now and find
alternatives. What is that?

Ofir Pines: I ask to speak to Bezeq representatives. Why don't you close the site?

Lawyer Bashmero Shlush: There are still no orders to close the site.

Heim Mazar: Why not close all the sites in Israel? Why only there? Let's
close the sites in Yavne, in Acre.

Yair Aloni: Don't work with computer, parliament member Pines. It's
dangerous for health.

Ofir Pines: I know you want to drag it to absurd. You will give answers
to what we see here, to the human tragedies. Don't start telling us
"close the computer, close the cellular phone"

Chair Amnon Cohen: I ask to hear from the security ministry why all the delay.

Ofir Pines: Why Bezeq does not close the site?

Lawer Shlush: They did not order to close.

Ofir Pines: Who can give you an order? You cannot understand that if
there is a government order, you and the broadcast authority.....

Lawyer Shlush: The government decision was not....

Yossi Malka: That's not true. I can bring you the contract clause. This
contract was approved in a government decision from the 28th September.

Chair: Sir, I ask you not to disturb. I asked to hear the security
ministry representative. Please Sir, introduce yourself.

Shlomo Alon, Head of the property unit in the security ministry. I will
not talk about whether the site has to be closed or if the time has come
to close the site.

Chair: Talk about the alternatives.

Alon: First I want to say that this issue is very complex from the army
side, very important and very problematic, because there are routes in
Israel for war airplanes and sometimes the route are operated only by
the instruments. When you put an instrument which radiates below the
aiplane and covers it with some kind of radiation, it can interrupt all
the equipments and the pilot can lose the directions and in high speeds
it's dangerous. That is first thing.

Second, it is about antennas of 225 meters, and I do not know whether
there are such hights in Israel. This is a thing that has to be
considered when discussing where to locate the site. That is why this
subject is very very complex and very complicated..........I am ready to
commit to reduce from 225 meters to 150 meters hight......

Chair: Does the coommunication ministry have to aprove?

Alon: Yes.....I said I don't want to talk about the question whether to
close or not because something new has to be build and I guess it's a
matter of 1-2 years....

Heim Mazar: Heim Mazar, deputy manager of spectrum unit. I was chosen by
78 countries to represent Israel in the communication organization of
the UN. I came to this meeting and I hear "shame", "shame and disgrace".
First of all I think we as public representatives and public workers
have to reduce the fear level. Whoever is going to exit from here will
be convinced that hazards happen to those who are close to the site.
There is no proof that there is a link between the transmissions and the
diseases. But more serious - If we close scarely the station in Zoran,
all the people who live in distannce of 20, 6 or 30 km from the other
sites in Israel.......

Chair: You are right in all that you say, but what is serious is that a
government decision is not done.

Parliament member Ran Cohen:
If the site is not closed the issue will be
brought to discussion again and I think that the disaster will be
bigger. I am all for the public broadcast, don't misunderstand. I think that
whoever kills the public broadcast causes disaster to Israel and to the
israeli society, but the fact that we lost the executing ability of
Israel- it's also a disaster.

When I was in the foreign and security committee I was in China. A town
called Shansen, which had 30,000 residents 12 years ago - today it's a
huge city of 6 milliom residents, with amaizing airport etc. And here
we don't succeed in moving antenna. I don't know how to call it. It's a
failure of the Zionut, failure of the doing. It can't be that it's
impossible to move an antenna.....Nobody enjoys it, that's the problem.
The broadcast authority suffers - I tell you that from knowing -
in Zoran they suffer, in Porat they suffer, the environmrnt quality
ministry suffers. Everybody suffers, because no one has the courage to
accept a decision. Deciding and doing, because without it nothing will
move. Understand the issue, with no such decision nothing will move and
what will happen is that everybody will continue to bleed. Gentlemen, do
we have the power to bleed?

Chair: I want to hear the environment quality ministry representatives
please, Madam, present yourself.

Dr. Miki Haran: Miki Haran, industries CEO deputy in the environment
quality ministry, and is here also head of noise and radiation, Prof
Stilian Galberg.

First, we were against the school near the antennas. They did not hear our voice..

Chair: Where will they build school? Children have to learn.

Dr. Miki Haran: But the antenna was there. We had seen the problem then
already, that's what I'm saying. It's better that you will know some
facts before you decide what you want to do, and don't misunderstand,
the antenna has to move, there is no argument about that but I want you
to know several facts Sir Chair, because the facts has to be accepted as
they are. In the former committe we heard Dr. Bar Hana who is
responsible for cancer registry - saying that in Porat there is less
than half cancer rate than it was expected. This is one fact.

Why do you cite only him? Cite also the others.

Dr. Miki Haran:
I just want to put things accurately. We are a very
professional office. We have to make decisions on the basis of true
data and true things. The antenna has to move, I am on your side, I have
always been on your side on this aspect. It is not worth fighting with
me where it's not necessary.

Ran Cohen:
Just to strengthen your decision to move the antenna, I want
to say that the findings in Zoran are opposite from the ones you
mentioned. There is also rise in the country average and also a rise in
brain cancer.

Dr. Miki Haran:
I don't want to get into that. You want, ask. I just
want to say that it's necessary to accept things as they are....the
radiation in Zoran today is in the same level as radiation level from
cellulatr antenna in urban area. The radiation in Zoran today stands in
the contract and is like in any regular urban place.

Avraham Natan: And it's 15% from the standard.

Dr. Miki Haran: No, it's a lot less than 15% of the standard. The
contract was about 10% of the standard. These points should be considered.

Every time rises the issue with the standard insitute. They say: We used
the wrong tools to measure radiation. In order to measure it has to be
professional people, to understand what one does, what one measures......

What does it transmit today?

Paul Vynsbach: A net and short waves.

Chair: I want to hear the health ministry. I am afraid for the heath of
the people who live in that area. In health matter we don't compromise.
In order to make a right and wise decision, I would like to hear from
the health ministry representatives about the real immediate risks in
this area and if there are researchs abroad in the subject of the
radiations. I know it's relatively a new subject in the world, but I
would like to hear about what there is. Please, Dr. Sadezki.

Dr. Sadezki: According the scientific position in the world today about
the implications of non ionizing radiation, this issue is a non-resolved
issue. There are researchs that show tumors excess, specially leukemia
and brain and others that do not agree with these findings, so I think
that the bottom line is that this subject is still in a scientific
debate......Many researchs were published on the subjuct and there is no
bottom line. There is no summery.

Chair: Yossi Malka, please

Yossi Malka:
I know that in a law country contracts are respected. I
don't get into the scientific debate whether it causes cancer or not,
specially when it is about a gray area that does not have conclusive

Sir Chair, since the articles in the newpapers about Porat and the other
villages, we are in huge fear/anxiety. The health ministry says that
fear is one of the parameters that causes cancer.....It makes me mad to
hear that the whole Zoran battle is about land. For removing doubt, the
area belongs to the Sharon heart area council, Zoran does not have any
interest in the area- point.....Friends, Israel country, in 2003,
operates the "Hetz"[missile] that does wonders, and cannot move a station?

Chair: I want to hear the head of Sharon heart area council.

Isak Yeshua:
I have a responsibility for building Zoran village. By the
way I have family there, two grandchildren who learn 400 meters from the
station. I want to say I am shocked. The housing ministry built this
village and the antennas had been there alreay. By all the government
ministries the order was to build a village and a school in the place.
As Israel citizen, it seems very odd that in the 90's were given
permissions to a village which accepted thousands of residents, when the
station had been there and actually it is clear to all of us what it caused......

Dr. Zamir Shalita: Dr. Zamir Shalita, advisor in environmental
electromagnetic and chemical obstacles. I was asked by Porat residents
to bring scientific findings which indicate on damage.

First, about the question whether the standatd fits. The standard is too
high. In a similar standard to Israel, a station in the Vatican in Italy
transmits and causes there to cancer in rates like in Porat. The risk
for children to get cancer there is in 2.2 times higher.

The exposure to RF radiation causes in 3 minutes to clear findings,
including stopping the nerve transmitter called "Acetylcholine" and
hormones, and a blood clot factor appears- within 3 minutes. It's not
necessary to wait 20 years.

Carcinogenic genes are activated and a temporary cancerous situation is
created. Genes to stress proteins are activated which go through the way
to the brain and at the same time the brain is opened to chemical

So, if farmers work with pesticides and they are afterwards near the
station, they get these contaminators straight into the head - from all
the chemicals.

The electromagnetic exposure causes within minutes to brain damage and
it was shown in MRI by changes in the brain waves. The RF exposure
causes to free radicals. There is a paper from the end of 2002, it
oxidated cells membranes, there is a loss of calcium in the nerve cells,
there is oxidation and DNA breaks---

Your honor, we are not professional people and don't understand
very much what you are saying. I ask to finish.

Dr. Zamir Shalita: That they won't say that other findings do not exist.

Your honor will bring the findings to the professional people in
the government ministries and they will refer it professionaly.

: I gave it to the science committee.

Thank you.

Avraham Natan:
[head of broadcast authority] We are ready to leave this
station, but what - I don't think that Israel can allow itself not to
broadcast in arabic. The meaning of not transitting A net is not
transmitting anything at all to the world. No one in the world will hear
us. So I am not sure that Israel can accept to close the site.

There are satellites.

Technically I am ready. As broadcast authority I don't have a
problem but I tell you that this is the meaning.
Maybe another monitor station has to be put and maybe two, to convince
you that we transmit only with 10% from the standard. We reduced the output....

Heim Hadad: Chair of Porat committee. We are not talking about 2 months.
We absorb this radiation for 50 years. I ask in every way - we pay in
our lives, 2 years ago was revealed the case of the 3 years old boy and
a month ago - I haven't said it yet, but I am forced to say it today -
another case was revealed in Porat. We die under this radiation. We ask
you, you are in charge of the law. Execute the law. We ask you. Thank
you very much.

Chair: The lady from the environment quality ministry. You wanted to
speak. Please.

Ayelet Rozen:
We all agree that the wated result is moving the site and
everybody think that the enviroment quality ministry has the authority
to pull the permission but it has to be emphesized that the charged on the
environmental radiation has no authority to pull the permission in order
to press to move to another place.

Who has authority?

Rozen: It's like walking indirectly because it is not decided. The
authority owner is the security ministry that will agree with the home
office. This is the king way.

Chair: But Madam, this authority was given to you.

Rozen: The fact is that it doesn't work. It can't be said that the
solution is to force the charged on the radiation to pull the permission
because the authority is defined by law, and the authority to pull the
permission is operated if there is or not standing ...

Pnina Kanati [Zoran]: Not standing in the contract that you are signed on.

Yossi Malka: It is in the contract. The head of the office is signed on it.

Dr. Miki Haran: If the state comptroller decides, we will pull the permission.

State comptroller: If the decision will not be to close the site
immediately, all the present here have to know that they shouldn't live
in the illusion that in a year or in a 1.5 years the problem will besolved.

Message and translation in English: Iris Atzmon

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